How Big is Too Big?
Every year when Nebraska is set to play Kansas and you spend the week thinking about their team, you can't help but think about their coach Mark Mangino. The elephant in the room, so to speak, is that he's morbidly obese. In some ways, it seems sort of out-of-bounds to mention and yet it's also impossible to ignore. By now you've heard all the jokes “Mangino the Hutt�, “Get in My Belly!� and on and on. But beyond the potshots, is it an issue that can affect the program at Kansas?
Certainly, it puts his health in some jeopardy. While perhaps not in the category of Bobby Bowden or Joe Paterno, his name might appear on a few “coaching dead pools�. He's not the last guy you'd think could drop dead on a sideline or in keeping up the insane hours of a head coach.
But beyond those sort of health issues you wonder if it affects how his players see him. Think how hard a Division I-A football player at a BCS program works at conditioning. They run themselves until they puke, they lift until they can hardly move their arms or legs. They have the kind of body fat percentages that would make Kate Moss buy baggy clothes.
And then they look at him. Do they give him the same respect they would a coach that doesn't need to shop at a Big & Tall man's shop or breath through his mouth? The Jayhawks don't exactly light up the recruiting rankings. Could his appearance be a problem? Some blamed Frank Solich's height (or really lack thereof) of hurting his image as an effective leader. Why wouldn't weighing-in at well north of 300 pounds do the same?
Then you scan through the memory banks. Where is that national championship or Hall of Fame coach that was as large as Mangino? Sure, there have been plenty of big guys like John Madden or Bill Parcells, but none of them looked like the Jayhawks' head man. What does this have to do with the game Saturday? It doesn't really. But since Husker fans are emotionally already looking ahead to 2008 and beyond, these “program-level� issues become fair game. And if Mangino needs to lose weight not only for the sake of his health (and those who care about him) but to be taken seriously by players and recruits, then that's worth thinking about. For whatever reason, it seems impossible not to.
10/31/2007
My guess is that his weight has little to do with lack of physical conditioning and probably more to do with an internal physiological issue. And in that aspect, giving the coach his due respect probably isn’t an issue.
10/31/2007
Evidently recruiting great talent hasn’t stopped Coach Mangino from getting the job done. It’s great contrast to someone who does bring in great recruits but can’t effectively coach them. Don’t let Coach’s weight bother you too much, Steve. It wasn’t a factor 2 years ago, against Nebraska, and may not be this season either. I’m sure he would thank you for your concern, though. Heh, heh.
10/31/2007
Demanding alot from your players when you, yourself, cannot perform in the same capacity, because of a handicap can be likened to a coach coaching from a wheelchair. Reasons for respecting your coach (and not respecting your coach) can be different from player to player. Mangino’s brain and the players brawn, together, work as a team and “feed” off of each other in a team effort. I doubt that anyone on this blog knows the exact reason for Coach’s obesity. One could only assume it is from overeating. Whatever the case, he seems to have his players full attention and focus.
10/31/2007
If you consider getting the job done being one good year out of six, than sure, not recruiting great talent hasn’t stopped Mangino. Just for those who would like to consider Mangino’s full tenure as coach at KU instead of one year out of six, Mangino in his six years has gone 2-10, 6-7, 4-7, 7-5, 6-6 and 8-0. And this is a team that has scheduled a bunch of nobodies during that entire six years and they play in the North division. Yes, Mangino, way to get the job done.
10/31/2007
ONCE AGAIN, one Big 12 North team (fan) making fun of another Big 12 North team playing “nobodies”? Seems kind of hypocritical, don’t you think? Like I’ve said before, if you really want to split hairs and be objective, look up who Nebraska has played since day one. Sometimes winning 800 plus games as a university, is not exactly what it might appear.This would help explain why a team wins an incredible amount of games, during the regular season and then loses in bowl games at a rate that is not communsurate to the regular season winning percentage. You know, if you want to be fair about it. Poking fun at the opposition has not been a real sucessful proposition lately.
10/31/2007
Where’s the person that called the guy on his “clownahan” post awhile back???
Sorry Steve, this isn’t a “program-levelâ€? issue it’s a poorly veiled personal attack done in bad taste.
10/31/2007
First of all, your response has little to do with what I said. One of the most annoying things in sports is how people (analysts, fans, ADs, etc) are so quick to anoint, for example, a coach as being a great coach after one season or ¾ of a season, with the consequence being that a coach or player gets a huge contract extension for no good reason. Second of all, I’m not going to delve into NU’s entire history, I’m only 25 I haven’t been a fan for that long, but we’ve certainly scheduled much more difficult nonconference opponents than Kansas in recent years. Not too mention I wasn’t even making fun of KU for scheduling nobodies, I was just pointing out facts. I can’t blame them for their weak scheduling, if there’s one thing I’ve learned its that the analysts and rankers look at win loss records almost exclusively, regardless of strength of schedule or margin of victory. That’s why I’m glad that next year we scheduled three pancakes to go along with a decent but not great V Tech. I can take the crap from fans of other teams if it means we end up ranked higher and going to better bowl games at the end of the year.
10/31/2007
Following substantial weight loss by some of college footballs other “big” head coaches last year, I think Steve’s post has merit. His weight is a health factor, any person with a conscious would want to see him address. And yes, perception matters in the image-minded world of college recruiting. It is not that different than discussing the effect that Paterno’s age (80) may play. Both are about health and image…and therefore in bounds, in my opinion.
IF Steve wanted to just pile on with a personal attack or some satire about the coach’s weight, he would. Trust me, BRN isn’t always above that kind of stuff. We have taken some cheap shots.
But, that is not what he is doing here.
10/31/2007
For you guys taking Steve to task for writing this post, you should know that it’s not just people oustide of KU that point out Mangino’s obesity. As a KU alumnus that still has ties to the school, I have been in Lawrence and seen KU fans wearing shirts which read “Our Coach Can Eat Your Coach.”
10/31/2007
Would you like fries with that coaching job? I’m just kidding. I couldn’t resist because I don’t normally like to make fun of people’s weight but it is a part of who he is. Steve, you forced me to do it. No but seriously, I understand your point in this article. Sorry Coach Mangino.
10/31/2007
“WOW” is right, Steve. I DO admit to an earlier post where I made a jab at Coach for a perceived eating diorder. I will apogize for having said that and wish Mangino the best of luck. He was a winner with the Sooners and is so now, despite his appearance.
10/31/2007
Image is everything. In the national media, the image that KU projects is that they are an 8-0 team gunning for title hopes regardless of their coach’s size. Here’s how it breaks down on paper. The teams KU have already played have a combined record of 30-39 for a winning % of 0.435. The teams they have left are 17-17 right now for a % of 0.500. That’s a total of 47-56 (0.456) for the season right now. For comparison, Huskers opponents have a 47-29 record (0.618) to date. We’re left with opponents of 18-7 (0.720). That brings the total to 65-36 or 0.644 for the season right now. On a personal note, losing weight can definately enhance your image. I’ve lost 30 lbs this year, and that’s enough to make a client take you seriously when they didn’t before. Imagine Coach Mangino visiting you or your child to recruit to KU. If he was 50 lbs less, recruit families wouldn’t probably be thinking about it at all, and in turn, we wouldn’t either.
10/31/2007
Doombob,
You are right on. I agree 100%. Congrats on the 30 lbs. And CThom I have seen those shirts. Some how, I wish he would just eat our coach so it would make TO’s decision a bit easier.
10/31/2007
KU fan. I’ve had several of my friends bring this issue up and all of them are Nebraska fans. I imagine that’s just because Nebraska fans tend to obsess about recruiting more than say MU or KSU fans. In any event, I find it hard to believe that recruits really care about the coach’s physical condition. They just want to go where they can play. Mangino hasn’t been burning up recruiting, but then no coach at KU ever has. That’s just the reality. Some have speculated that Mangino’s weight might make him less of a candidate for coaching at other schools. I don’t know if there’s any truth to that, but I hope so. We certainly don’t want to lose him now. While it’s true that Mangino’s teams have hovered around .500 most of the time. You can tell for a while that they have been on the cusp. They had 4 ot and late losses last year that easily could have been wins. The 2005 team had a great defense, but KU had just lost their starting qb and couldn’t put a decent offense together. The 04 team was just the opposite. This year they seem to have put things together on both sides and don’t lose much to graduation this year. My point is, KU has made a lot more progress under Mangino than the record might indicate. If his weight is affecting recruiting, he’s still doing a good job.
10/31/2007
I didn’t think this one would go unchallenged (nor did I think it shouldn’t).
OU7, brings up a point about a wheelchair and quite honestly things didn’t go all that well for Milt Tenopir (arguably the greatest offensive line coach in college football history) once he was consigned to a golf cart. In a competitive field driven often by physical stamina, the condition of your body can really matter.
It’s easy to argue that recruiting rankings don’t matter, but it would be a lot easier to do if schools like USC, Florida, TX, and OU haven’t been near both the top of those rankings and the top of their conferences. Players matter.
Mangino deserves all of the credit in the world for what he’s done this year (and in the past few), but the question is whether this is sustainable if they continue pulling in recruiting classes near the bottom of the conference or whether they just found enough longshots to pan out at the same time and will very soon revert to the Kansas football team we’ve known and loved over the years.
You also have to wonder if Mangino might be a candidate for the Nebraska job. In effect, I could be raising the issue about NU’s next coach. And believe me, if he was our coach I’d worry about his health and his recruiting a great deal.
10/31/2007
Whatever he is doing as a coach, he should keep doing. I have more respect for Mangino than any other coach in the conference for what he is getting out of his players. From a health standpoint, I hope he sticks around for a while and gets it taken care of. But I’m not going to tell the guy what he should or shouldn’t do. If he doesn’t want to lose weight, no big deal. No pun intended either.
I look for Kansas to be out in front comfortably by the time NU gets into rhythm this weekend. I think this weekend is going to be a classic case of getting outcoached.
10/31/2007
To be clear, I’m not saying that recruiting rankings don’t matter. But your question was would KU be getting better recruits if Mangino wasn’t overweight. I doubt it.
Is KU’s success sustainable is a different question than what you asked. They’ll be good next year because they won’t lose a lot. But how good they’ll be after that depends on who they get in this year’s class. I’d rather an overweight Mangino be doing that recruiting than a svelte Callahan.
10/31/2007
Steve, it does make you wonder if Mangino would consider a job at NU. ?? It would obviously be a HUGE step up but also the idea of switching teams within the conference (ala Chuck Fairbanks). I still wonder, though, about Harvey Perlman’s place in the Nebraska (unfolding saga)of how do you OK the extension of the former AD and the Head Coach and come up with “how did we get to this point”. Really, really weird, when you think about it. Do you think that the latter will come into play when it comes time to find a coach? BTW, word is that KU wants to lay a special licking on NU this weekend. Style points might make all conversation about “laying wood” or running it up, moot from now on. Nowadays, if you don’t win big, you just might drop in the polls.
10/31/2007
Depending on your source (whether it’s Social Psychology or Colin Cowherd), there’s a clear advantage in salesmanship to being average or above average looking. Quite simply, things are easier for people considered better looking. Cowherd’s case in point is Ron Zook at Illinois. Some think he cheated in recruiting, others say this guy is just made for sales (“the look” and all). If you acquaint yourself with the social psychology literature, you’ll find much the same. Think of it this way, how does the fattest kid in elementary school get treated?
But RCJ has a point that Mangino’s results with less than blue chippers has really outshined Callahan this year.
OU7, a chancellor’s job goes so far beyond athletics that even at a place like Nebraska, you don’t fire an academic for their failings in football.
I’d disagree about needing to run it up. With this season looking like Survivor, a team with a perfect record from a BCS conference should be playing for a national championship. The only losable games for KU seem to be MU and OU (or another Big 12 championship game opponent). Also, who you play matters so much more than the score that if any two of OSU, ASU, and BC run the table (along with KU), KU will be left out regardless of final scores. That doesn’t mean that KU can’t or won’t run it up, only that I don’t think they need to and I think their coaching staff would know that.
10/31/2007
Not sure that the KU team wants to “lay a special licking” on the Huskers this weekend, but certainly their fans do, as they are calling for 111-0 or 65-0 on a lot of blogs, like KUSports.com. I can tell you that Mangino’s recognized nationally as one of the best offense guys out there. And that there are a lot of Jayhawk fans worried that he will build a program at KU, but never live to enjoy it, as they too see his weight as a severe health risk.
10/31/2007
Mangino’s weight: should it matter—NO; DOES it matter—YES, to some degree as stated above rgdg recruiting, program image, and the like.
While watching the KU/KSU game on the tube, they panned the KU sideline at times and any unknowing fan wouldn’t have guessed in 20 lifetimes that Man-Genie was the HC—ball boy yes, HC, no. His shirt fall—untucked—down to about knee level.
But, as is always the case, if the guy continues to win, absolutely no one will care about his weight beyond basic concern for his health. In fact, it woulded be hyped in some sort of posotive light: the ‘imposing grizzly bear’ of the north; he’s like’ten coaches in one’, etc.
I agree with J Mo above, that Mangino’s KU hasn’t exactly rocked the world previous to this season, and they still have to prove themselves worthy of their high ranking since they are a new kid on block, breathing rarified air—will they get dizzy?!
He is well liked, seems to know his stuff, and is confident in a good ol’ boy kinda way. This year’s team is very solid on both sides of the ball and looks pretty legit. However, I still think they would be about the 5th or 6th best team in the SEC; i.e., they can’t win regularly, if at all, against top talent.
I would love to see KU get the north over all the others—except NU(is that still possible?)—and especially over Miz-ZOO!
There’s no way I want him to be the HC at NE, though, c’mon, he’s not THAT good.
I think BO P would be the best fit at this point, so there’s no way I would go for Man-Genie.
YO!
10/31/2007
Aw c’mon ZeBop. Really? I think Man-genie would be cool at NU. He is that good, really. Obviously there are a lot better looking, fit coaches. I think Mangino’s lack of good recruits in years past has kept him from having similar(wins/losses good years. I think if he stays at KU, you will see, in most years, this on a consistent basis. Just think of what Mangino could do with the recruits that Nebraska would haul in. Dude would definitely restore defense at Nebraska. I don’t buy in to the obesity being a negative perception when it comes to recruits. His record will do the selling and IF he were coaching at NU, the recruits would have the awesome facilities to boot. Sorry Ze, I just don’t see BO P back at Nebraska.
11/1/2007
OU7,
Well, it’s a good thing that Mangino is not in my line of work—union carpenter—his weight would just make it prohibitive, and that’s not a knock on him as a person.
So there’s this thing called ‘fat oppression’ in the world—unless you want to be a suma wrestler or something—and that is why Mangino’s weight would effect recruiting and image in some instances: ‘fatness’ is usually perceived in a negative light in and of itself; I think the Bible even confirms this, though I’m not a Fan of that book.
I must admit, that even though I like Mangino & maybe he’s a good coach—who’s his OC and DC, BTW?—I would have a problem, asthetically speaking, watching him thunder up and down an NE sideline, inadvertantly taking out the chain guys and such.
And let’s say he only wins 6-8 games a year at NE: the Husker Fan smack would be even more ruthless as what we’re seeing with Cozahan.
Plus, I think his long term health is a real issue. He looks like a prime candidate for a heart attack. It’s too bad, because I think his weight his holding him back careerwise, but maybe he’ll turn KU into a national power and everyone will be trying to steal him away.
Also, right now I think there are better proven coaches in the mix for NE—Brian Kelly is another that comes to mind, though his O scheme is not smash mouth(spread).
11/1/2007
OU7,
Also, if, in the unlikely event, that NE chose Mangino over TURNER GILL(who I think is less ready than Mangino for the NE job), Husker Fan at large would go bilistic—I mean BIG TIME.
11/1/2007
Coach Mangino has been the recruiting coordinator at K-State, OU and now is HC at KU. He has earned the assistant coach of the year award. He is able to recruit young players who do have talent but maybe not all of the measureables. This man has nothing to apologize for at all. It is obvious that his players do respect him. His size hasn’t been a detriment to KU fundraising for football. He is a better HC than Callahan and most of the other coaches around the conference. This was nothing more than a cheap shot article made to look like a serious story. Even if KU should lose their last four games he will have done a much better job than the Husker staff. BTW, he wouldn’t ever consider the Nebraska job.
11/1/2007
Hey Ze,please elaborate on Nebraska fans going “ballistic” if Mangino was head coach at NU. I’m just curious.
11/1/2007
OU7,
Alot of Husker fans REALLY want Turner Gill, so if Mangino was chosen if Gill was ready and willing, fans would go ballistic over it.
It’s funny how a coach has one decent year out of a half dozen and everyone’s ‘crowning his a$$.’
Nobody was even thinking about Mangino and KU last year when Big Red was in the CC….
If KU drops a few games before season’s end, the topic will fall back into irrelevence.
11/2/2007
p.s., thank god he doesn’t have a uni-brow; I mean, the weight’s one thing, but a uni-brow would be a real deal breaker for alot of fans….
11/2/2007
Yea, you’re probably right. BTW, Do you think that Callahan mentioned on his resume his co-starring role on “The Fabulous Baker Boys”, to get his job at Nebraska? I hear the fans loved it…at first. Heh, heh.
11/2/2007
ou7,
I hadn’t heard of that, but I have heard that since Calli’s not going to be coaching next year, on the side he’s been auditioning for movie roles.
Case in point is another sequel to the Ludlum spy thrillers where Calli will play the lead(since Matt Damon can’t do this one) as a covert espionage guy running from a corrupt CIA and taking down a BAD Swedish oligarchy along the way.
He’ll have to dye his hair blonde.
Title: “Bjorn Autocracy”.
11/2/2007
This writer is a joke. I’ve enjoyed all the reader comments, but good grief, Mark Mangino needs to loose weight as badly as this writer needs to find a real story. Sounds like a beat writer whose team is beat. KU41 Neb14 PEACE OUT STEVIE